Ep. 35: Client Story - Rachel + Evan (Avoiding Pregnancy)
Caitlin Estes:
Welcome to the woven well podcast. I'm your host, Caitlin Estes. I'm a certified fertility care practitioner with a master of divinity degree. Each episode we'll cover a topic that helps educate and empower you and your fertility while honoring the deep connection your fertility has with your faith. Let's get started.
Caitlin Estes:
Welcome back to the woven well podcast! I believe that a part of empowering and educating women is to connect them with other women and couples on the same journey. That's why we'll sometimes have episodes devoted to hearing the fertility journey of a woman or couple who's a part of woven. Whatever your situation or fertility goal, it can sometimes feel very isolating, but there is a whole community of people out there asking the same questions you are. That's why I'm especially excited to welcome Rachel and Evan to the podcast today. I've enjoyed working with them for several years, and I'm so glad to have them share some of their story and experience with you all. They began using the Creighton method about four years ago in preparation for marriage, and it's been an important part of their marriage ever since. So Rachel, Evan, welcome!
Rachel:
Hi, thank you.
Caitlin Estes:
As I just mentioned, you began using the Creighton method back in 2018, I believe. So, I'd love to hear what first led you to the Creighton method. How'd you hear about it, or what made you want to give it a try?
Rachel:
I heard about it from Caitlin <laugh> We knew each other already and, we were engaged and I think that, I didn't know that programs like Creighton were even a thing. So I didn't know there was a structured way to go about natural family planning. But to be honest, I did not want to be a natural family planner. It did not sound fun to me. It did not seem like the thing that I really wanted to go for, but I'd had a lot of friends and just people in my life who had had negative experiences with hormonal birth control and just felt hesitant about going that route just because of health concerns and seeing how it can affect certain people. So I still tried to avoid natural, and I did research. I went to doctors and explored my options and just really felt like it was going to be the best option for my body and for us together. And what felt important to us.
Caitlin Estes:
You know, what I love about you're saying there is that you took the time to look into all of your options and you all made the decision that you felt was best for you. I think that is fantastic. And I do not blame you at all for not necessarily wanting to do natural family planning. I totally get it when you say it sounded more difficult, it sounded a little scarier. So since you've been using the Creighton method together for several years now, you know, what's that journey been like for you all through that marriage? How, how have things changed or stayed the same? What's that process been like for you?
Rachel:
Yeah, I have loved, and Caitlin, you have given us a lot of permission for this to be the case, but I've loved that it's been able to look different for us at different times. And well, when we first started, because Evan came to the intro session with me, he came to all of our appointments together for a good while there. Yeah, when we first started, it felt so hard to me. It felt like another language. And I think I just, I do not have a regimented personality. And so I think I just worried that I wasn't cut out for it. My personality just was always going to struggle with it. And you did a great job of instilling hope, I guess, that it would not always feel as hard as it did and sometimes I believed you and sometimes I didn't <laugh> , but we hung in there thankfully. And I can honestly say that now there are things that feel completely second nature to me that when we first started, I thought I am never going to be able to get this. And so as a result of feeling more confident, we have changed the way that we use Creighton together sometimes in, in the sense that when we first started, I would make observations and that felt like all I could handle <laugh>. And so Evan would do all of the charting at the end of the day. And then we've gone through seasons where I've just felt confident to handle it on my own. And then now we're back in a season where I changed job situations and stuff like that. And I've said like, Evan, I need you to be responsible for recording my observation at the end of the day, every day. And so we're kind of back on that and it's been really helpful to brainstorm with you, Caitlin and figure out, and you just are so generous in giving us permission that it doesn't have to look the same in every season of our life and it can change and be what we need and at a given point.
Caitlin Estes:
And I want to say really quickly that I love that you all embrace that flexibility within the system and not only in how you use it, but the specifics of different seasons, what works best for you all as a couple together in making it work. Because I really think that you all, and any other couple using it, you thrive when you're flexible like that. And to me, that's one of the benefits of using a natural system is that it has that kind of flexibility. So. Okay. What about for you, Evan? What has this process been like for you?
Evan:
Yeah, it's been interesting. I feel like even more than Rachel, I had a really, like, I could not be in a more opposite place than where I started. I mean, I'm a good old boy who grew up on a farm and went to Auburn and was in a fraternity. So the idea of natural family planning was real like, woo, woo. Like, no. And I, I was really angry at first. It was like, I don't want to do this. And this is not what my idea of intimacy and, and birth control is going to look like within marriage. And, fortunately, I am now married to a person who is patient and kind. And so, what it turned into was a way to advocate for my wife's health. For us, it was less a moral decision, but it was like, Hey, for Rachel's body, this is what's best with some of the health things that she had going on. And then pretty quickly once we started doing sessions, I just think the human body is truly fascinating. More so than Rachel did at the beginning, I was like, this is amazing. I want to see the slides. <laugh> Like, what is this? Yeah, it's, it's turned into a way to partner with my wife. It's even turned into a little bit of like a theology of marriage of like, Hey, you know, intimacy is two people and planning a family requires two people. Therefore birth control just should truly, and I mean that, from my perspective, should require two people working in tandem, making decisions, doing the work. I cannot expect just my spouse to figure all this out. So it's become this like partnership and, but yeah, it's been a really good journey and, has become, I think, a thing that we just get to share in which I think we've learned within marriage now, when you get to share something, that's just a win. And I know more about how to best like advocate for Rachel's thriving in a way that like I could. I'm not her doctor. I can't do that otherwise, but Creighton has given me a platform to like work towards her health and her thriving as a woman and as a person. and as my wife, which has been a gift.
Caitlin Estes:
Y'all I so appreciate that both of you are so open about the fact that you started off really not wanting to do this. <laugh> Like really not having the motivation or the interest or the desire and Evan, as you said, kind of being angry about it, because I get that. And I know for a fact that you're not the only people out there that when they first hear about this option, they have that sort of a reaction to it. But what I love is that from the start, you all were both in this, like, okay, if we're going to do this, we know we need to do it as a team. And you've maintained that throughout the process. And the thing is you can walk away from this at any time. That's always an option for anyone using this. It's not a permanent decision. So you have that kind of flexibility in that, but at the same time, you all were journeying together. And it seems like some amazing things have come out of it outside of fertility. But as you said, within marriage, which is so wonderful. And I appreciate you sharing all of that. Now you've shared with me previously, outside of the podcast, about the role community has played in the use of natural family planning for you also, would you mind sharing a little bit about that with us?
Rachel:
Yeah, I honestly think that has been just such an unexpected gift that I really did not anticipate when we first started using Creighton. I am remembering a conversation that we had when we got a new staff member at our church recently. And she was like, you have got to tell me about this Creighton thing, because it is like a craze in the church now. And I heard that you were like the original Creighton girl. Like you got everyone that started on this.
Caitlin Estes:
I did not know this. This is funny. <laugh>
Rachel:
Yeah, it was really funny. I'm just remembering it. And so it's been really cool and really special one to not feel like when it has been hard or I've, I've seen something in my chart that I feel nervous about, or even just to be supported in making a decision like this, because
Caitlin Estes:
It's countercultural.
Rachel:
Yes, exactly. It's countercultural. And sometimes when you talk about it, you get reactions you wouldn't expect. And so to know, and walk closely and have friendships with, people that I already had relationships with that are now using Creighton has been really special. And it's also just been a joy that when we are talking with friends who are encountering their own fertility issues, that I feel so confident in the people, and Creighton as a system. But I feel confident to be able to say like, Caitlin, I really feel like she could help you. <laugh>. And so I just love having that resource too, to, as we walk with people and this is naturally coming up anyways, to be able to feel confident in saying, Hey, like, I really think this could be a good option for you, too, has been really sweet.
Caitlin Estes:
Yeah. And I love that you said it comes up naturally because it does!
Rachel:
Absolutely.
Evan:
Yeah. I agree with what Rachel said. I think for me it was a lens of discipleship. I think I have a really strong belief that if we are meant to make disciples of Jesus, then that means we disciple people in every area of their life, whether that be spiritually or their finances or sex. And so it, it just became a really natural conversation with most of my guy friends, most of which, who freaked out when I first started talking about it. But it became a cool way because as Rachel naturally was talking to people in our community and wives were becoming interested, it was really fun to get to, I think again, serve as a helper in this scenario of like, Hey no, no, no, listen to your spouse. This is a really great way to know her health, better to like partner with her in this thing that you should probably already be partnering in in some way. I think it's been something that's enriched our community and has sort of given us shared language and like a stepping stone to talk about something that a lot of times people within the church are kind of afraid to touch. And it's allowed us to do that in a way that I think's been really beneficial to us as a newly married couple. And then now three and a half years in it's just given us a lot of freedom to recognize that God is at work in every aspect of our marriage and our friends' marriages. To hear Rachel talk to like single women about the ways that Creighton is really beneficial to them is like just makes me excited. I think just in the fact of like, this is just such a beneficial thing to know how your body works and to like appreciate that it works in a certain way and it tells you like God's given us all these abilities to know what's happening in our health. And I've just appreciated Rachel's approach to that, but not just being like a natural family planning thing, but a like more like how do I like advocate for women period.
Caitlin Estes:
Yes. I think that a theme I'm hearing today is thriving and it's thriving of marriages and the conversations that happen there, thriving of the partnership, thriving of individual women, really the realization that God wants us to thrive. And we were actually physically made to thrive, not necessarily as meaning we're healthy all the time, but in the thought that we were made with intention with meaning both male and female, and there's a purpose there. And when we identify that purpose and how God created us and for what purposes, we then thrive. I love that. That's so important. And I appreciate you both sharing that. So is there anything else, any advice or anything else you all would like to share with our woven community today?
Evan:
I think I would just say to people who are curious, I am a systems person. I build systems from a job. And so, I think, just to not be turned off when you hear the words, natural family planning as like a, we just hope we don't get pregnant or we hope we to. Creighton is so regimented and it is a system and there is so much structure and there's all this research. And I think it has given me a ton of freedom to like, know what's happening and to know what decisions we're making and to know like for us, like for the last three years it's been to avoid pregnancy. And so I just can say we've really done that. And we've known we were doing that at every step. And so if you hear it and you hear like, again, the little like, woo, woo, this is out there and strange, I just would encourage you to like go to a meeting Caitlin with you first, because it's just the furthest thing from that to me, it's more regimented than any other option.
Rachel:
Yeah. And I think for me, the only, the something that has been such a big piece has been just the endless amount of information I have gotten about my body and then the subsequent resources that have come with that. I just have had several things that my doctor has helped me name and find answers to question marks in my health that I had seen other doctors about many times before and not found answers for. And I think part of that is me being able to contribute new information that I didn't have before by being able to be in more in tune with my body, knew my body, me confident about what's happening. And then also I think I've just been connected with providers that have been so helpful and beneficial, and that has not meant that I've been perfectly healthy. It has not meant that I have had no issues or new symptoms in my body. Hormones are changing and definitely have, seem to have, a mind of their own sometimes <laugh>. And so I think that in addition to Creighton in a system that has worked for us, I just think that I've found so many resources that have improved my quality of life in a number of ways that I would want to do, whether we were using this as a method for birth control or whether I was married or not.
Evan:
And I would just add to that as someone who works in the medical profession, the best way to be the best patient is to know the most information about yourself. And then you can advocate for your best care. And as someone who works with some of the private providers that do see Rachel her chart is the most like, like helpful thing to them, even if they've never used it or not. Like just having more information is powerful specifically when it comes to advocating for our health. And so, especially for women, this is such a tool and an asset for those things.
Caitlin Estes:
Hmm. I feel like I have to mention that next week's episode is about advocating for yourself in the doctor's office. So if this sparks interest, the next week's episode is for you. But if anyone's listening and you're confused about what Napro means, that is a certain field of medicine that many OB GYNs and other medical providers go on to receive training in. And they are a restorative approach to health women's health specifically. And they're always focused on finding the root cause. We've got some other episodes we can link about that as well. So, well thank you both so much for sharing and being just so open about your journey and your feelings and where you started and where you are now. I really appreciate your time.
Rachel:
Absolutely. Yeah. Thanks Caitlin.
Caitlin Estes:
For those listening. Maybe you heard something that resonated with you in Rachel and Evan's story. Maybe you feel like you are one of them at different stages. Maybe you're engaged and you're looking for options. Or maybe you're a friend who wants other people to know about resources or maybe you're a married couple that's looking for a way to honor your spouse, your fertility and your faith at the same time. We would love for you to join this little community we have at woven fertility. We're having an introductory session in just a few weeks and I'd love for you to attend. It's a great overview of Creighton and also education on a man and woman's fertility, hormone health, and how to get started. You can register@wovenfertility.com/join-us. I am so glad that you all get to hear from some of the wonderful couples that I am. I truly am blessed to work with and they, in my opinion, make the work fun and of course meaningful. And I hope that this episode has felt that way to you all today as always thank you for listening as we continue to explore together what it means to be woven well.