Ep. 42: Processing Pregnancy Loss, with Kerri-Anne Brown, LMHC

Caitlin Estes:

Welcome to the Woven Well Podcast. I'm your host, Caitlin Estes. I'm a certified fertility care practitioner with a master of divinity degree. Each episode will cover a topic that helps educate and empower you and your fertility while honoring the deep connection your fertility has with your faith. Let's get started.

Caitlin Estes:

Welcome back to the Woven Well Podcast. As you may or may not know, October is National Pregnancy and Infant Loss Awareness month. And although we know these little ones are remembered every month by the mothers and fathers who lost them, we wanted to set aside an episode specifically for those who are grieving a pregnancy loss. So we've previously done episodes on common causes of miscarriage and talked with miscarriage doula Arden Cartrette about what to expect before, during, and after miscarriage. And these are certainly great practical resources on both preventing and physically surviving pregnancy loss, specifically early pregnancy loss. But today we're talking about the emotional healing process that begins the day you learn you've lost a child in pregnancy. And to help us do that, I have invited Kerri-Anne Brown, a licensed mental health counselor in Florida who focuses on maternal and reproductive mental health. She's also a certified grief coach who teaches women how to navigate grief after loss. Kerri-Anne, thanks so much for joining us today.

Kerri-Anne Brown:

Thanks for having me, Caitlin. It's a pleasure to be here and to chat with you, especially during this month. Like you mentioned, being the month that we're honoring pregnancy and infant loss. I think it's such an important topic, so I'm glad I'm able to be here to have this conversation with you.

Caitlin Estes:

I'm glad too. It is so important. And so far we've primarily used the term miscarriage on previous episodes of this podcast because we've been talking about early losses and that's the most commonly used term medically. But I really like that you use the term pregnancy loss in your work. It certainly encompasses loss in any stage of pregnancy, but it also really validates the pregnancy, no matter the stage, you know, and focuses on the loss that was experienced and not so much maybe what caused it. So even an intentional difference like that can really help us to begin processing this kind of loss. Because it's not exactly like other losses, is it?

Kerri-Anne Brown:

No, not at all. And you're right, I definitely use pregnancy loss intentionally versus miscarriage because there are various types of pregnancy losses and it's a much more inclusive word that acknowledges all losses, like you said, regardless of how or when they occurred. So the pregnancy loss itself is just the death of an unborn baby at any time during the pregnancy. And statistically we know that's about one in four pregnancies. That's a lot. That's a lot of babies. So, it's definitely a word that I think validates all losses regardless of how and when they occurred because all pregnancy loss is valid.

Caitlin Estes:

Do you feel like as someone is walking through a pregnancy loss, their grief looks any different than other losses? Or is it more challenging to walk through a pregnancy loss as far as grief goes?

Kerri-Anne Brown:

I think so. I think it's a very unique type of loss. There are lots of layers of grief involved. You know, it's just so much more than just the loss of the pregnancy or the baby. It's the loss of the hope for that baby's future. You know, the dream that you had for your family, the loss of what we refer to as the reproductive story, it's the core beliefs and assumptions about pregnancy and your journey to parenthood. What you envisioned it would be like for you. And when that dream is not realized because you've lost a pregnancy, that dream dies along with a pregnancy and the baby. So that in of itself makes it inherently unique from any other type of loss.

Caitlin Estes:

That is such a good point. You obviously are losing the life of the child, which is monumental. It is devastating. But there is also the loss of getting to make an announcement or getting to do a gender reveal or if it was a later term pregnancy, having family come to see the baby, raising the child, all of those things are also losses. That can make that process more difficult.

Kerri-Anne Brown:

Yeah, definitely. And they're invisible losses because those are the losses that aren't as easily recognized and acknowledged. And so when a person loses a baby, they're grieving so much and a lot of the grief is not visible to others. And so it's like disenfranchised grief because it's a grief that's not well understood.

Caitlin Estes:

When you think about how someone is walking through that and maybe even being uncertain about what can they say, what can they share? Because not everyone can understand what they've been through. Not everyone has walked in those same shoes, even though as you mentioned, one in four pregnancies may end in pregnancy loss. It's still not something that we talk about a lot. And so we may not know that our friends or family have walked through that and we don't know how to share that experience with others. When we start thinking about grieving that pregnancy loss, what does that journey look like? Or maybe what are some tips or suggestions that you have as you're walking through pregnancy loss?

Kerri-Anne Brown:

Yeah, I think the important thing is to recognize that it's a timeless journey. You know, like we often think of grief as something that maybe has an end date. Like we're grieving for a time and then the grief ends and then we move on with our lives. When the reality, the lived experience, is that it's a timeless journey does not have an end date. Each year that passes you're grieving the loss of those developmental milestones your child would have reached. So it's like grief on repeat.

Caitlin Estes:

Yes. Yeah. And I so appreciate you acknowledging that and mentioning that because I'm sure that there are some mothers out there who reach those milestones and feel like, 'Oh, I shouldn't feel this way, I should be over this.'

Kerri-Anne Brown:

Over this!

Caitlin Estes:

That's right. We're using quotation marks - nobody else can see us. But you know, 'I should be past this already.' But there isn't a point that you just breeze past this, you're walking through it. I do think that because it is such a unique loss, it can be hard to know how to process it both immediately and in the long term, like you're talking about. So I really appreciate you saying that it's not a process that has an end date or a solution to it. Sometimes we really do just have to walk through the pain in order to process it.

Kerri-Anne Brown:

Yeah.

Caitlin Estes:

So I bet there are a lot of things that we've heard about pregnancy loss that aren't necessarily helpful or true. I know in my work with couples, I've heard women express confusion as to why their next successful pregnancy causes this resurgence of grief and sadness. But it's a myth that even a successful pregnancy would somehow negate the loss of an earlier pregnancy. So what are some other myths or misguided beliefs that you hear frequently?

Kerri-Anne Brown:

Yeah, there's definitely a lot of misguided beliefs, which can lead to a lot of unhelpful or hurtful comments being said despite good intentions. Right? So one that comes up a lot is grief being linear or happening in stages, right? We always hear about stages of grief, but that's not really what happens. That's not what it looks like. You know, it happens however it happens, we can't package it and put it in a nice neat little box with a pretty bow on top, right? Grief by nature is unpredictable, right? So this idea of stages of grief and you get to the last stage and then there's a finality to it, and now you've completed your grieving when you get to that final stage. That's a faulty expectation to have that that's what it's going to be like for you. And I think that's why we see a lot of people struggling because they feel like they're doing it wrong, right? Like, 'I'm not grieving correctly, I'm not grieving the right way, which brings me to my second common misguided belief that there's a right or wrong way to grieve. There really isn't. It's unique to each of us and our grief reactions will vary, you know? And so it doesn't have a look. There's no single way, right way, wrong way. So that's another common misguided belief that I think sets people up for struggle on the grief journey because there's no, you know, standard operating procedures manual to follow here, right?

Caitlin Estes:

That's right. You may start at anger or start at bargaining, or you may not follow any of those. You may never experience any of those things. And that's okay. It doesn't mean that you're not processing it or not processing it well. You're following your own journey.

Kerri-Anne Brown:

Absolutely. Which is unique to you, just like your baby was unique to you. The other thing, what you mentioned earlier, when we both mentioned earlier, about viewing grief as something to get over, when a certain amount of time has passed, there's like an expectation of, well, you should be over it by now, it's been X amount of time. Right. You hear that and it's really problematic because it can leave someone feeling like they're doing something wrong, Right? Like they're grieving incorrectly or too much or too long, right? Like there's a problem with how they're grieving. Grief is not a sickness. It's not something for us to get over, rather something for us to get through, you know, one gentle but brave step at a time.

Caitlin Estes:

I love that, that grief is not a sickness because it's not something that you're trying to find a quick cure for. You may want a quick cure <laugh>, but there isn't one. And so instead of belittling ourselves or you know, getting frustrated with ourselves that it's not this quick process, instead learning to walk through it and maybe honor those feelings as they come up is really the best way to make, as you said, gentle but brave steps forward. I love that as well. Gentle but brave because you're not trying to push yourself too far, right?

Kerri-Anne Brown:

Right.

Caitlin Estes:

But at the same time, any step forward, any step, I'm not even going to say forward any step is positive in that journey. So Yeah. And I appreciate you sharing those myths too because I would imagine anyone listening, they may be walking through a pregnancy loss or that may be a part of their story, or it could be that the people listening today are those who are friends, are family members of someone who has experienced pregnancy loss and they're thinking about what are ways that I can support my loved one? And just hearing these myths can be very helpful to know that if your friend is crying over a pregnancy loss two years after that loss, that is an okay thing. That is nothing wrong with that. And they can be there and be present and support them even in that kind of situation.

Kerri-Anne Brown:

Absolutely. Yeah.

Caitlin Estes:

Yeah. I know that it can be hard to find mental health counselors in every state who specifically offer the type of reproductive and maternal mental health care that you do. I know that because I work with clients all over the country and so I know it could be a little bit challenging. So I'm curious, is there anything specific that you'd recommend a woman look for in a counselor to help them process their grief from pregnancy loss?

Kerri-Anne Brown:

You definitely want to find someone that has specialized training in maternal mental health or pregnancy loss. Like we mentioned before, it is a very unique type of loss. And so just general counseling is helpful. I'm not saying it's not helpful. What's more helpful though, is to be working with someone that has training in this area. For example, PSI Postpartum Support International. They have a directory of providers and they're all trained in perinatal mental health. That's a great resource knowing that the provider has experience - training, rather, in the area. And then experience training plus experience. So you can ask when you're doing consultations to find a therapist, you know, how much experience do they have working with this? And another great question is how do they help, because they're different therapists have different styles of how they work with people. And so I think having an idea of what to expect, how they help with this can help put you at ease in terms of knowing that you're working with someone who is experienced, they're trained, they've done this before, they're confident in how they can work with you in, and then moving forward from there.

Caitlin Estes:

Those are great suggestions and I will make sure for all those listening that we have PSI in the show notes so that you can look for anyone that may be in your area if you are looking for specific support there. And if one of our listeners, if they live in Florida and would like to work with you specifically, what would be the best way for them to learn more about your work or to get in touch with you?

Kerri-Anne Brown:

Yeah, so on my, you can visit my website healingwithwisdom.com, learn more about me and the work that I do, and there's a form on there if you're interested in working with me. You can fill that out and we can connect that way. And I also offer grief coaching. So if you're outside of the state of Florida and you're needing support with specifically navigating the grief aspect of life after pregnancy loss and some tools and insights on just navigating that wilderness that is grief after, then I can help with that as well. So I also have a form that will help you receive some tips on working with your grief support.

Caitlin Estes:

I love these resources and I so appreciate you specifically mentioning your grief coaching option for outside of the state of Florida, because I would imagine a lot of listeners are outside of the state. You've also let me know that you're offering a group coaching program that's starting in January, 2023. So if you're listening before, then you have the opportunity to join. And if you're listening afterwards, then you can certainly reach out to her and find out when the next group plan begins. And that you've also provided us with a guide for grief. So we're going to have both of those things linked in our show notes for listeners if they'd like more resources. So thank you so much Kerri-Anne, for being on today, for talking with us about this important topic and for providing us with so many resources to use moving forward.

Kerri-Anne Brown:

Thank you for having me. You're welcome.

Caitlin Estes:

Listeners, if you're interested in learning more about mental health in all areas of fertility, not just pregnancy loss, you may be interested in our workshop series, Mental Health on the Fertility Journey. We all struggle with anxiety, doubts, fears, and more related to our fertility journey, whether you're trying to conceive, strongly avoiding pregnancy, or somewhere in between. So you can find out more about this workshop series at wovenfertility.com/resources. As always, thanks for listening as we continue to explore together what it means to be woven well.