Ep. 41: Client Story - Julia & Donald Paul (Engaged)
Caitlin Estes:
Welcome to the Woven Well Podcast. I'm your host, Caitlin Estes. I'm a certified fertility care practitioner with a master of divinity degree. Each episode will cover a topic that helps educate and empower you and your fertility while honoring the deep connection your fertility has with your faith. Let's get started.
Caitlin Estes:
I believe that a part of empowering and educating women and couples is to connect them with others on the same journey. That's why we'll sometimes have episodes devoted to hearing the fertility journey of one of the couples who are a part of woven. Whatever your situation or fertility goal, it can sometimes feel isolating, but there is a whole community out there asking the same questions you are. That's why I'm excited to welcome Julia and Donald Paul to the podcast today. Unlike previous client interviews, I've only just begun working with them. They're right in the middle of our four education heavy initial follow up sessions, but I wanted to introduce you all to them because of their specific stage in life. They are engaged! And they are learning Creighton in preparation for their marriage. So if you heard last week's episode, then you know that it was for engaged couples who are looking into all of their options for family planning. So I'm excited that today we get to talk to a couple who has just recently walked through that decision making process. So Julia, Donald Paul, thanks so much for joining us today. So let's start off with how long have you all been engaged?
Julia:
We've been engaged since July, I guess about three months. Since the end of July.
Caitlin Estes:
Yes. So not super long, which means that obviously you started thinking about this aspect of marriage at the same time you were thinking about things like bridesmaids dresses and honeymoon locations. So good for you two! Had you all heard about Creighton before getting engaged?
Julia:
I have two older sisters and they've talked to me about natural family planning. I didn't know that they were many different methods, but of course, right whenever we had our first marriage prep meeting with our priest, he talked about kind of get to know each of the different methods, see which one you think, suits you better. And so we listened on our way home from our long, very long car journey home from our marriage prep meeting. We listened to a bunch of different podcasts talking about the different methods and I think it, the Creighton method, just seemed like the best fit for us immediately.
Caitlin Estes:
So smart. I love that you looked into all of your different options, like you said, and I love that your sisters were making sure that you felt prepared, and were talking to you about this sort of thing way before you were engaged or, you know, preparing for marriage. So that's great. It's good to have sisters.
Julia:
Yes, absolutely.
Caitlin Estes:
So you all have been learning for just over a month now, and I would love to hear, you know, what are your thoughts so far? Is it what you thought it'd be or different?
Donald Paul:
It's been interesting. From my point of view, being the male in the relationship, it's been not a hands off experience, but, like it's about her, but she engages me in that relationship, which is kind of fascinating. So like I do the charting, she obviously does the observations and it kind of allows me to learn along with her. And we can kind of like bounce off of each other like, Oh, I didn't know what this meant. Well, and then we can kind of like have a dialogue about it and then, which obviously helps us learn more together. Instead of it being, you know, separate or just her.
Julia:
It seems like he takes in more during the meeting. So I'm like, "Wait, what does this mean?" He's like, "Julia, no, this is what this means." I'm like, "Oh, yes, you're right. Okay. That makes sense." Yes.
Caitlin Estes:
Oh, it's so good to be partnered. Right? It's so good to not be doing any part of this alone. And I don't want to gloss over that because obviously by what you just said, Donald Paul, it's not just Julia attending these education sessions. You all are attending them together, every single one so far you all have attended together, both learning together. So tell me a little bit about that. Like why was it important to you all to both learn how to use Creighton?
Donald Paul:
Yeah, I mean, there's a lot there obviously, but I think yeah, in marriage, obviously you're becoming one as a couple. It's not like an individual experience. It's two individual people becoming one in the sacrament of marriage. So kind of your whole life is going to be shared together, not only like physical life, family life, living together, but also like intimate parts of your life, which this is a very important aspect of. So I don't know why this would be any different. It shouldn't be. Like it involves her just as much as it does me, even though it's not necessarily my body, but because of the sacrament, because of marriage. Like that's something that we can experience together and it helps when I'm not just saying, Oh, yes or no, it's, I have an understanding of what's going on and I can help even in just supporting things that happened to her or that to us together.
Julia:
Like of course being a woman, we understand, well we don't understand... Like all the parts of our bodies and all of the hormonal changes and it becomes so overwhelming. And now to have a partner in all of it to talk to him about it and him kind of help me think through things. Like think through okay, well what does this mean about fertility? What does this mean? Because I am very much a person where I like to take everything on by myself. And so that's been also a great practice for marriage whenever it's just the two of us working through things together.
Caitlin Estes:
Yes. I love that aspect of it too, that there is trust almost on both sides. That you all are trusting one another with this process. You know, he is trusting you to make observations and you are trusting him to collaborate together, to talk about each observation, to know how to chart that correctly. And so you really are using it as a couple to make these decisions. And Donald Paul, one of the things you just said about, you know, I know it's her body, but we're becoming one body. Mm. There is goodness there. Right?
Caitlin Estes:
That is so good. And so respecting her body looks really specific, right? I mean, there's lots to that respect. And I think that there are ways in our culture, in our churches that we learn about healthy respect, which is wonderful and really good. But this is a very unique special way that a husband gets to respect his wife. And that is a very special thing. And I love that you all are seeing that. And also valuing how as you become one body that is a unique way to worship God through that. So beautifully said, beautifully said. I'm curious for you, Julia, about what you thought it would be like coming into it.
Julia:
I really did not know a lot about anything that was going to be happening with Creighton.
Caitlin Estes:
That's very fair.
Julia:
I knew it had to do with charting. Yeah. <laugh> literally had no idea. That's basically all I knew. I talked to one of my friends from high school, from elementary school, and they were one of your clients and she was kind of telling me about Creighton and all of the different elements that went into it. And I was like, Okay, well I literally had no idea that any of that happened. So that sounds good. We learned so much.
Caitlin Estes:
Right. So it's been a fresh start for you then you've kind of taken it at face value, which can be a really good way to walk into it.
Julia:
Absolutely.
Caitlin Estes:
So you all have mentioned to me that one reason you chose Creighton was because of the benefits you anticipate in marriage, or maybe I should say even beyond Creighton, the natural family planning, you saw benefits for your marriage specifically. And so, especially now that you've started learning a natural family planning system together, I'd love to hear what you all see so far as what some of those benefits may be for you all.
Donald Paul:
Yeah, just like, we're not married yet, so there are certain aspects that we don't experience yet, but specifically I guess health related, just learning that not everybody's cycle is the same. So then, how does that affect Julia's day to day life and ultimately affect me? And so yeah. I think right now it's specifically kind of health related and then obviously getting into marriage specifically for wanting to have children or for whatever reason needing to delay having children in this natural way. Yeah. It's a benefit. It's been really fascinating to learn.
Caitlin Estes:
For sure health reasons, very practical for fertility planning reasons. No doubt this is a conversation that will continue to happen throughout marriage, whether it's avoiding pregnancy for a time, whether it's hoping to achieve a pregnancy. It could be even thinking long term as far as you all may have your children, you may be have a family that's complete and you no longer feel like the Lord is inviting you to welcome more children into your family, but you're still fertile as a couple. So this gives you that opportunity because once you have Creighton, you have it the rest of your reproductive life to use. Now you have this opportunity to continually work together, serve one another in this way, have these frequent conversations, and even to continue to stay open to the Lord's guidance. So you may feel totally done with your biological family, and the Lord surprises you by putting it on your heart to start having another conversation about it. Again, using a system like this really gives you that kind of openness and flexibility throughout your reproductive life as a couple. And I really feel like it's a way to honor that aspect of your marriage and your individual bodies, but that aspect of your marriage too.
Julia:
Absolutely. For right now as we're engaged and preparing for marriage, it's done a lot of bringing us more intimately with one another. Of course we're not in the season of after marriage and physical intimacy, but it's almost like emotional intimacy is growing even more. If I talked to him about my health stuff, like if I've had stuff in the past, like, what could this mean? Like how would this make you feel? And we are very communicative with one another, which is incredible. Yeah. Just in the grand scheme of things, just to have that in general is great, but to have it when talking about my fertility and his fertility, I think that it's brought a lot more emotional intimacy than I was expecting.
Caitlin Estes:
That's beautiful. And so important. You are absolutely right. Mentioning that open communication, there are a lot of things that engaged couples are very open about. Creighton brings it maybe to the next level<laugh>.
Julia:
Absolutely.
Caitlin Estes:
The topic that you're talking about, whether it be body specific stuff or just talking about intimacy that is to come in marriage and learning how to talk about that together. I love it when couples begin while they're engaged instead of waiting until they're married, because I think it can be really helpful to start talking about this area of physical intimacy before you approach it physically. It kind of encourages that openness and that communication that you're talking about in a way that may have felt taboo or uncomfortable beforehand, but this gives a really healthy avenue to talk about it in a way that is very faithful, very God-honoring, but still I think is a benefit as you prepare for marriage. So I'm glad to hear that you all feel that way too.
Julia:
Absolutely. And it's like we become exactly like what you said and what DP said, we're just becoming one. And it's acknowledging that.
Caitlin Estes:
I would love to hear if you had any words of advice or encouragement for anyone who's listening who may be engaged and wondering about what their options are because you're in that same place of life, what advice would you offer to them?
Julia:
I would definitely suggest looking at all of the options, looking at each method because of course each method is not going to be perfect for one couple or one woman. And just kind of being open to it. We prayed a lot about it. We were thinking that okay, whatever method is for us, God will put it on our hearts. He will direct us whichever way and Creighton stuck in our minds. So I think a lot of it is very intense prayer, taking everything into account, not just like focusing on one thing.
Donald Paul:
Yeah. It's a very comprehensive program, which is something I've really been impressed with. Again, just something I didn't know beforehand when I heard about natural family planning or when people would talk about it, it was like, oh, there's this set time in the month where you're fertile and because of that then you don't have sex during that time. You know, that was kind of, that was it. Which I mean, is not, it's not wrong, that's a part of it, but it's more than that. It's such an aid to, if she has to go to the doctor and then she has these tools and this information that she can bring to aid, you know, because so many times we try to treat issues and we don't treat the actual underlying problem. Not only, I mean everything, but, but...
Caitlin Estes:
Especially in women's healthcare.
Donald Paul:
<laugh>. Yeah, exactly. Absolutely. Creighton obviously cares about the problem, you know, cares about specific issues, but it again, if it treats the actual underlying problem, then that's the more holistic way to look at it. And yeah, I would just say that's a very, very positive aspect of the model that I've been very impressed with and iit will serve us in the long run.
Caitlin Estes:
Well, that means something to me that you would say even after just a month in that, you know, that Creighton cares about helping a woman get to the root cause of her issues. That means a lot to me because we do care. I know I care very deeply about it. So I love that you all know that and feel that. And since it's this early on in the process, that means a lot to me and that you feel like it's just as comprehensive and thorough as we want it to be because this system is 99.5% effective, specifically at avoiding pregnancy. I mentioned that because a lot of couples who are engaged are looking to initially avoid pregnancy for however long, and we take that very seriously. We want to stick to the 99.5%. So we do have a very dedicated system to teaching that and in making sure that couples feel really confident in it. So the fact that you all already feel these things just a month in, it feels really great. I'm glad to hear it. So I appreciate you sharing that.
Donald Paul:
Absolutely.
Caitlin Estes:
So I do want to thank you both so much for your willingness to be on the podcast, to talk about your journey even so early on in it. So thank you so much for being on today.
Donald Paul:
Thank you so much for having us.
Donald Paul:
Absolutely.
Caitlin Estes:
And for those listening, if you're engaged and interested in learning more about the Creighton method that I want to invite you to our next introductory session. So if you're listening on the release date, then we're having one actually this next Tuesday at 5:00 central. But we offer these every month. So whenever you're listening, you can find our next offering@wovenfertility.com slash join us. And I'll also have that link in the show notes for you. So this introductory session, it gives a great overview not only of how Creighton works, but also how the male and female body work so you can walk away with a fuller understanding of a couple's fertility and the basics that you need to begin charting that next day. So we really hope that you can join us. As always, thanks so much for listening as we continue to explore together what it means to be woven well.