Ep. 17: Client Story - Kadie & Ethan
Caitlin:
Welcome to the woven well podcast. I'm your host, Caitlin Estes. I'm a certified fertility care practitioner with a master divinity degree. Each episode will cover a topic that helps educate and empower you on your fertility while honoring the deep connection your fertility has with your faith. Let's get started.
Caitlin:
Welcome back to the woven well podcast. I believe that a part of empowering and educating women is to connect them with other women and couples that are on the same journey. That's why at times have episodes devoted to hearing the fertility journey of a woman or couple who is a part of woven. Whatever your situation or fertility goal, it can feel isolating sometimes, but there is a whole community of people out there asking the same questions you are. That's why I'm excited to welcome Kadie and Ethan to our podcast today. I've enjoyed working with them for several years, and I'm so glad to have them share some of their story and their experience with you. Kadie and Ethan began using the Creighton method in preparation for marriage back in 2018, and I think it's been an important part of their fertility story ever since. So Kadie and Ethan. Welcome.
Kadie:
Thank you so much - so excited to be here.
Caitlin:
I'm so glad you're here too. You know, I love y'all so much. And it's so great to have been working with you both for years and now celebrate with you as you watch your daughter grow. So to get us started, I'd love for you to just share how you first heard about Creighton and maybe what drew you to the method as you were preparing for your wedding.
Kadie:
Yeah. So, , when we got engaged and maybe a little bit before then when I'd started thinking about birth control options, I just kind of had a feeling in the pit of my stomach that, , hormonal birth control just wasn't gonna be a good option for me for a variety of reasons, including my own health. And then also just some theological convictions that kind of started forming in me about birth control and what that, that might mean. And I started talking to my pastor about it and some close friends and just seeking wisdom and honestly just looking for options and then one of my close friends, who actually knows you, Caitlin, connected us. And I loved that Creighton was rooted in both faith and science and within like 15 minutes, I think, of the introductory session, I was like, yep, this is what I'm doing. This is gonna be really good. So yeah, that's kinda what drew us Creighton.
Caitlin:
I love it. Community. Absolutely love that it was a friend of yours that connected with you with Creighton. Like y'all, anyone listening, education is community led. So tell your friends. I guarantee it was likely a friend, you know, who probably told you, if you're listening is probably a friend that got you connected. So you all began learning as an engaged couple and then used the system to avoid pregnancy naturally in the early years of your marriage. So, so many couples find that concept avoiding pregnancy naturally intimidating, or think that it would be impossible for them. "Maybe these other people can do it, but I could never do it. How are we supposed to show love and affection and share complete intimacy with our spouse, with a natural system?" Meaning there are gonna be times where we choose not to be together. So I'd love to hear about your perspective on that
Ethan:
Yeah, well, I believe just as a Christian person, personally that sex already has boundaries and guidelines that are attached to it, specifically that it belongs in the context of a marriage. And so also believe that just as we were preparing to enter marriage that if that is something that can have boundaries and guidelines, that it's reasonable to expect those to exist at times within marriage as well. And that, for me, I believe that it took the pressure off of the like physical aspect of being together in that way and opened my eyes to see that intimacy can be so much broader than just physical intimacy in that way. And, so it really, I believe Creighton helped me to, to grow in our love and affection and to be able to honor and love one another, as we prepared to enter marriage and as we're now, I guess, three and a half years married and have just really seen our relationship grow through the use of this natural system. And, it's been really great.
Kadie:
Yeah, I would just also add and say like, I wanna affirm that it does seem kind of intimidating and scary, especially if you've experienced marriage without the parameters that come with Creighton. But I would just invite anyone who's listening to see it as an invitation into like a fuller and deeper understanding of intimacy. We actually found, and are finding, that in times of avoiding pregnancy, when we've had to take, you know, breaks from expressing our love physically, kind of like Ethan was saying, we've just opened our eyes in our world into like so many different facets of our relationship and by connecting emotionally and intellectually and creatively, our physical intimacy is actually so much fuller and richer because we've connected on all of these other levels too. So I would just invite the listener to know that they're actually invited into deeper intimacy by having some parameters and guidelines around just physical intimacy itself.
Caitlin:
Hmm. I love all of that. Both of you, what you had to say was absolutely beautiful and, listeners, one of the things that I talk about with every client couple is the concept that you can be intimate and loving with your spouse outside of genital contact. Certainly that is a great option, but it's not the only option. And marriages really thrive when we diversify our ways of expressing and receiving love. So you can be intimate with your spouse spiritually, physically, intellectually, creatively, and emotionally. So for you all, what are some examples of ways that you all have found to practice those other ways of showing and receiving love?
Ethan:
It really has helped us to just be reminded that closeness and intimacy is, has many different areas. And so, you know, if we're avoiding pregnancy and therefore avoiding genital contact, like we can spend time pursuing other aspects of our relationship. You know, we can, we like board games, so we can decide to do that. I love cooking. We can decide to, you know, have dessert and like just enjoy talking to each other and catching up about something that we haven't talked about recently of always thought like, 'oh, that's, we should probably ask that.' And we also have some like cards that we use that are called well known that we will sometimes use just as conversation starters. And so it just is kind of is an ever present reminder that there are other aspects of our relationship that need work and need attention, as well. And sometimes that means Kadie will ask me for a back massage and we'll do that as well because that is allowed while you're avoiding pregnancy. <laugh>
Caitlin:
Absolutely, absolutely. It is <laugh> and it seems like you all have even kind of shared what a difference it makes in your marriage already, when you think about practicing those things and incorporating those things. But I wanna give just a second for if there's anything else you wanted to share about what keeping that kind of open-mindedness towards intimacy and affection can do to benefit a couple's marriage.
Kadie:
I mean, it has, like, I genuinely believe it's transformed our marriage. And I'll cry if I talk about it too much, but, just like the emotional closeness that I feel to Ethan, and also just the partnership that it's created. I'm sure we'll talk about this later on in the podcast, but like the fact that fertility is a partnership and something that we've always kind of had to communicate about, and times of avoiding and achieving, like it's allowed us to see every other area of our life as a partnership. So I would say both the emotional connection and then just the like open communication and partnership that it has invited us into have both been like transformative to our marriage.
Caitlin:
Beautiful, absolutely beautiful. And I think talking about partnership is a great idea. You all do a great job of being intentional about with your practice of showing affection and sharing intimacy and also with how you use Creighton. So you kind of referred to that. I know that you all have been very deliberate about sharing the actual process of charting Kadie's observation. So there are many different ways that you could do this, you know, lots of couples have different things that work for them, but I would love to hear what you all have found works best for you.
Ethan:
Yeah, so we've tried and practiced various different methods throughout the course of our marriage, because it is, you know, it's a daily thing, so there's a lot of time for experimentation, but I think what works best for us when we're really in a groove is, Kadie will make her observations throughout the day. And then just at night after she makes her final observation and we're laying down in bed, I will actually keep the chart in my nightstand. And then, so we just talk about what her most fertile sign of the day was, and then I'll chart that. And, so then I'm staying informed and aware about what is happening and where she's at. And then also, Kadie can sometimes have a little bit of anxiety in relation to, 'oh, what does this sign mean? What, like, why is this happening on this day?' And so also me keeping that has been really beneficial in that she doesn't feel the need to always be checking and just kind of having to worry about that, but that I'm keeping that. And we'll be able to look and talk about some of these things during our checkups with you Caitlin, but that it's not something that she needs to be staring at each and every day and wondering and worrying about why that's happening.
Caitlin:
Mm-hmm absolutely! And the fact that you understand the system, Ethan, and can give her feedback on, ;you've seen that before,' or 'it was okay last time it happened,' you know, anytime those kind of scenarios pop up. I love that too. So I'm curious, did all of this, the utilizing spice, the sharing the system together, did that make a difference for you all when you decided that you were ready to try to achieve a pregnancy instead of avoiding? Cause obviously it meant a lot while you were avoiding pregnancy. So did it make a difference while you were achieving a pregnancy?
Kadie:
Oh my goodness. Yes. A hundred percent. Like, I think the line of communication was already open from when we were trying to avoid. And when we got to a place where we were like, okay, maybe we might wanna start trying soon. I mean, like you're looking at a chart and then making a choice at night and we were just able to talk about it so much more freely. And, I just like really never felt like I was doing it alone. I've never felt like I was doing fertility alone in marriage. And so yeah, 100% made a difference. It just took a lot of the pressure off of me to be the one that's keeping track of everything alone and invited Ethan into the process of us trying to conceive.
Ethan:
I'll just add that it kind of made our decision making a little bit more real. And again, we had to partner in that as well, because I personally have complete confidence in the Creighton method. And for over two years we were avoiding pregnancy and avoided pregnancy. And so when it came time to achieve, we had to take that seriously. Like if we make this decision tonight the odds are quite high that we will become pregnant. And so it removes some of the just, 'oh, let's take a stab at it and see what happens' thought. And so that just added, made that decision a little more concrete of like, are we ready and to welcome a child into this family. And, it worked so we have a child.
Caitlin:
<laugh> I love it. Yeah. Back in the intro session, anyone who gets started in the intro session at one point, we talk about how there are no taking chances with Creighton. Instead you make decisions. So you have the information and you make decisions together. So that was perfectly said, both of you all. So, well, knowing that there are a lot of women and couples listening, what do you wish you had had someone there to say to you about your fertility as a married couple? You know, when you're maybe just getting started or were looking for a method or maybe even before you got married, when you were to get married, you know, what words would you have loved someone to speak over you, whether they did or not what words would've been helpful?
Kadie:
I think two things, one, I wish someone had just told me and Caitlin, you did <laugh>, I'm so glad Caitlin told me, like, you can do this. It is effective. If you use it correctly, it is an amazing resource and tool that God has given, given us to be able to avoid and achieve pregnancy in whatever season you find yourself in. Like, it's not impossible, it can be intimidating, but it's not impossible. And then number two, I would just invite particularly the ladies listening to invite your husbands in. We can just, I know I can become very controlling in some ways and wanna like manage it all on my own, but by inviting and letting Ethan in, especially with the charting part of it, it really did alleviate a lot of the fear and the confusion and the anxiety that I had related to fertility and the things I was observing. So you don't have to do it alone. Invite your spouse in. It really will create a lot of unity and I believe flourishing your marriage.
Caitlin:
Hmm. I love that because so often that's a fear for women, even if her fiance or husband is very excited about participating, sometimes she can feel nervous about, 'oh, what would that look like? How would he feel about things we have to talk about mucus,' you know, <laugh> You adjust, you adjust! You get really good at talking about it! And Ethan, this is our first time having a man on the podcast! It's a big deal. Welcome! As the first one here, I'd love to give you a second to share if there's anything that you feel like it's important for men specifically to hear as they and their fiances or wives are considering using method like Creighton.
Ethan:
Absolutely. Well, first of all, thank you for having me. I'm honored to be a guest on this podcast.
Caitlin:
Absolutely. I'm thrilled to have you!
Ethan:
Second of all, I will also say this is my first marriage, so it's really the only marriage that I've experienced is using the Creighton method. But it has just brought me so much joy and enjoyment in our relationship. And, I think as we've talked about a lot, it's just really allowed us to partner in this work of fertility. And, Caitlin, one thing that you said early on in one of our sessions is that, you told me that I'm fertile a hundred percent of the time. And so it just really, to me, seems like such a real tangible way to love and to serve Kadie in our relationship is not to put all of the pressure of making sure we don't get pregnant on her. That, that we are working together in this.
Ethan:
And, so yeah, it has really opened my eyes to just ways that I can help to love and support her, not only through Creighton, but in other areas. And also, I just wanna say, like, I've never felt like cheated or robbed, but that, again, as we said earlier, that the depth of intimacy that I believe if we've experienced, Creighton has only added to that. Snd really just, again, we just have so many friends and hear stories that people think that like sex bears the weight of a marriage and makes or breaks a marriage. And, that just is not the case and should not be the case. It can't carry that burden alone. And so, yeah, just being able to work together as partners and pursue a wide variety of intimacy and depth your relationship has been just really good and enjoyable. So thank you, Caitlin.
Caitlin:
Thank y'all. Thank you so much for just openly sharing so much about your personal journey, your marriage, your relationship, your partnership, like all those beautiful aspects. I really appreciate both of you being on today.
Kadie:
Of course we love being here.
Ethan:
Thank you for having us.
Caitlin:
Absolutely. So for those listening, maybe you heard something that resonated with you in Kadie and Ethan's story. Maybe you're engaged and you're looking for options like Kadie was, or maybe you're the friend who wants other people to know about those resources, or maybe you're a married couple looking for a way to honor your fertility, your marriage, and your faith. All at the same time, we would love for you to join us at woven fertility. So we're having an introductory session in just a few weeks that I'd love for you to be able to attend. It's a great overview of the Creighton method and also education on a man and woman's fertility, hormone health, and how to get started. So you can register for that@wovenfertility.com slash join us. So thank you for listening as we continue to explore together what it means to be woven well.